Anastasia Vasilets started her journey in distant Sevastopol, not knowing that later she would dance on the stage of the famous Imperial Theater, the Mariinsky, in St. Petersburg. In addition to her work in the ballet company, she began teaching, and now is the head of the Department of Character and Historical Dance at the prestigious Vaganova Academy. We met to discuss her journey and this unique field of activity within the world of Russian ballet. For the Russian version of this interview, please click here.
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Why ballet?
It happened by accident. Like all parents in Soviet times and now in Russia, my parents tried to develop me comprehensively. At first, I went to a dance studio in my hometown of Sevastopol in the House of Officers. After a while, the teacher told my parents to pick me up because I was doing nothing but looking at myself in the mirror. After that, my parents sent me to sing, and when they came to the concert, it turned out that I was standing and not even opening my mouth. The only thing I liked was playing the piano. And then, when I was 6 years old, my father, a military officer, was transferred to Leningrad, and we moved here. First they sent me to figure skating. But due to the fact that I had very weak, long and thin legs, they didn’t even let me out on the ice and didn’t give me skates, the classes ended in the gym. They said that my level of training was very poor and so they couldn’t give me the skates.
Above: Anastasia in class with Uliana Lopatkina.
According to the Soviet tradition, teachers from different school group “sections” went to regular schools and selected the most capable children. A rhythmic gymnastics coach from a sports school came to my class and said that I had good traits, so I started doing rhythmic gymnastics. There were no special results, and the choreographer-coach advised my parents that with such long legs it was better to send me to ballet. So I went to enroll in the Preparatory Department at the Choreographic School (now the Vaganova Academy) a year before the first grade. When I arrived, they asked me what I was doing. I replied, “Rhythmic gymnastics,” although I had only been doing it for 6 months, but I thought it was good. At that time, dancers were not allowed to sit on the splits, it was believed that gymnastics “spoils” children, creates problems with your back, etc. The committee looked at me and did not accept me into the preparatory group. Then my dad suggested: “Let’s go again, and so that you won’t be recognized, we’ll sign up under your grandmother’s last name, but don’t tell them you’ve been doing gymnastics.” I came back about 2 weeks later, and they asked me, “Girl, what have you been doing?” I replied, “Nothing.” The Commission said: “You’re right for us.” That’s how I was accepted into the preparatory group. When it came time to apply with the paperwork, I had to say that I came with my grandmother, she’s old and got everything mixed up, she wrote her last name. Then they accepted me into the first grade.
Did you want to do dance?
It’s hard to say. When we lived in Sevastopol, I loved watching figure skating on TV: the skaters moved beautifully to beautiful music. And I would pull back the table and dance to all the figure skating numbers. I had slippers with rubber soles,and I stood on them like pointe shoes. And as my mother says, whenever I watched ballet on TV, I gave a critique of everyone.(laughs) She says that’s probably where my teaching talent came from!
Was it difficult at school?
Valentina Ivanovna Sokolova was my first teacher, she was very strict, an old-school teacher. I have the most negative impressions about the first year, because she used the old methods: she scratched, she could pinch so much that the next day you came back with a bruise. She called me names. She told the students,”You’re a policeman”, “You’re a collective farmer,”and soon. It was very humiliating. In this regard, I didn’t like studying, although I received good grades. Maybe she was a good teacher,but that was a long time ago,and I can’t appreciate it now.We’d only been studying with her for one year, then we were lucky, because we were transferred to Olga Dmitrievna Iskanderova-Baltacheeva’s class. She had just retired from the Mariinsky Theatre, and we were her first class. She was young, about 40 years old, full of energy and strength. She taught us diligently, she had a completely different, modern approach, she was respectful to children. We did extra classes in the evenings. She was a good teacher, because if you look at the next generation, a lot of girls went through her who later became good ballerinas, for example, Sveta Ivanova, Dasha Pavlenko, Tanya Nekipelova and Veronika Part studied with her for six years. I can name her other students who worked at the Mariinsky Theater: Maria Chugai (now in Amsterdam), Victoria Brileva (now at the Bolshoi Theater), and Dasha Vasnetsova, although she did not graduate these girls, but led them until the first or second “course” [final years of study].
After Olga Dmitrievna, I joined Natalia Dudinskaya’s class. There were supposed to be 4 classes connected, and someone had to get to Dudinskaya. Everyone knew that she always chose students from different classes. We were worried about how it would be. I wanted to get into her class. She loved the small and technical girls, like Margarita Kulik, for example, who had great technique and could turn quickly. I wasn’t like that, but I still really wanted to study in the class of Vaganova’s direct student, she was a recognized and experienced teacher and a famous ballerina.
Photo above: Anastasia as Bathilde alongside Diana Vishneva as Giselle, in “Giselle”.
We went on vacation,and it was unclear if I’d get into Dudinskaya’s class. In the summer, I was in Sevastopol with my grand mother, and Olga Dmitrievna wrote me a letter on paper (there were no mobile phones or text messages back then)and sent it by mail. She wrote that Dudinskaya had accepted me. It is a pity that the letter was not preserved. It was difficult studying under Dudinskaya, but interesting. I realized that I was studying with a great ballerina and an equally great teacher. Almost from September of the first year of my studies, I began to write down her lessons on paper. I now have 3 notebooks of her lessons. I don’t have time,but I hope that in memory of Dudinskaya,I will decipher the lessons and publish a book at some point.
Natalia Mikhailovna Dudinskaya was always late for class,so all lessons started with en l’air at the barre.Before that, we would just fool around. We had a very kind pianist, Rita Ivanovna, and we’d ask her to play a variation. She would play and we would jump and spin. Then Dudinskaya came in, and we immediately started doing en l’air at the barre.
You can’t say that she was strict, but she was such an authority that you, of course, obeyed her. She was respectful, never insulted the students. She always said: “You have to do it, you can do it, fight for it, you will succeed,” she encouraged us. There were 12 of us in the class, and she taught us for the last 3 years at the Academy. I’m looking at these notebooks now, and the first and third years are almost the same thing. She said, “I’ve been teaching everyone how to be a ballerina since the first lessons.” Almost immediately she would teach us the final version of all the movements. That is, in the first year, she taught the technique of the graduating class.
When you graduated, was it clear that you would be working at the Mariinsky Theatre?
At that time, Oleg Mikhailovich Vinogradov was in charge of the theater, and he liked tall girls with long legs. When I came to the theater, Ulyana Lopatkina and I were the tallest. At that moment, the era of tall dancers began, because before that, the average height was shorter. I remember when I first came to the theater and danced the Mazurka in Swan Lake, Gennady Naumovich Selyutsky told me: “You are the tallest in the Mazurka!” But when I retired, he said: “You’re the smallest!” because the artists were much taller than me.
Despite the fact that I was not very technical in the classics, I was given a 5 minus on the exam [out of 5 points], and I received a red diploma, the highest honor. I don’t remember if I was worried that they wouldn’t take me to the theater, probably, I was. Oleg Mikhailovich accepted the tallest ones,and I got into the corps de ballet.
Was there a specific career track when you graduated?
No, although at school I danced solo characteristic dances: Aisha in the scene of the Kurds from the ballet “Gayané”, and the Oriental dance in “The Nutcracker”. But at the same time, I also danced the [solo] two snowflakes, even at the Bolshoi Theater, when the Academy took the production to Moscow.
At the graduation performance, I was supposed to dance Aisha and Mehmeneh Banu’s monologue, but after the dress rehearsal I got chickenpox and didn’t dance at all. As a result, I went to the theater based on the results of the exams that Oleg Mikhailovich watched. So during my first months in the theater, I danced both the classics and character roles.
How did you start focusing on character dances?Meeting Nina Mikhailovna Stukolkina, a very famous character dancer, played a great role. I was introduced to her and her husband, choreographer Alexei Leonidovich Andreev, they loved working with young people and were preparing some dance numbers. At the time I met her, she was already 86 years old, and I was 17. She and her husband came to the theater and said,”Give us any students,we have some concert numbers.” Oleg Mikhailovich Vinogradov allowed them to work with young artists,they were preparing a concert, but they didn’t receive money for it. Back then, there weren’t as many performances as there are now, and we didn’t go on stage as often.
Of course, I danced very few solo roles because there was a long line for those. By the time all the dancers had their turn, the line rarely reached me. If there had been a situation like now with two stages,then, of course, I would have danced more often. There was a lack of work. I was standing in classical ballet, I dreamed of dancing the Four Big Swans [from “Swan Lake”], the Grand Pas in La Bayadere, but I couldn’t because I was weak, I had weak legs. But when I met Stukolkina and Andreev, we began to rehearse character numbers from the repertoire of the theater: the Spanish dance from”Swan Lake”, the Oriental dance from”DonQuixote”, the Algerian in”Le Corsaire”.Then they gave me the role of Bathilde in Giselle, and Nina helped me find some poses and how to be on stage. And, probably the impetus to pursue character roles stemmed from this. She was 94 years old when she died, and she worked until the very end. I started preparing roles with her. Then I would go to the management and say,”Look at what I’ve prepared.”
How did you start teaching at the Academy?
In 2000, my eldest son was born, and I decided that if I returned to the theater,I would no longer be assigned anywhere, there would be little work,and there was time to go to study. But as always happens, I went to study,returned to the theater,and they began to give me even more work than before! It was difficult to combine: lessons on our single day off [Monday] at 9 a.m. for music theory, and so on. I studied to be a teacher for 5 years, and I started teaching even before I graduated.
Altynai Asylmuratova, then the rector of the Academy, told me the following year there would be more character classes than teachers,and asked,”Would you like to try teaching character classes?”When I went to study, I didn’t think specifically that I would be teaching character per se. I just liked studying, and I thought that of course you don’t refuse this sort of offer. I also liked that the character class was in the afternoon during the daytime, when there is the break at the theater, so I could combine it: during the break after theater rehearsals and before the performance, I could go to the Academy, give a lesson and come back. So I agreed. In 2003 I agreed to teach one class, and in 2005 I received a pedagogical diploma.
But is the teaching diploma without specialization?
It’s general, there is no specialization, because they teach the methodology for classical, character, duet dance and acting skills – you study all of it. Then they consider what is closer to whom, who is more suited for a certain type of class. The management decides because they know us,see us onstage, and are aware of what we do in the theater.
What is your current position?
I’m the head of the Department of Methodology and Practice of Character Dance, Historical Dance and Acting. What do I do in this role? Now the Department of Performing Arts and Pedagogical Faculties have been merged. The Performing Arts Faculty is the school that trains ballet dancers. The Pedagogical Faculty trains teachers, it’s higher education. I’ve got a large volume of papers: all kinds of programs, reports. We need to do all this paperwork. We have the oldest teachers of characteristic and historical dance, and they become the chairmen of the commission, they are the main methodologists. My function is to organize the learning process in the subjects “character dance”, “historical dance” and “acting”. Or, for example, there is a seminar, and I have to organize this seminar, decide which teacher will give lessons there, and count the number of hours — this is administrative work.
Yesterday, for example, at 11 p.m. a teacher called me, and we discussed the acting program, because there is no program, and we need to make a program and a methodological guide. The Department of Methodology used to work for many years, and thus retained the methodology set by Vaganova.
Is the Methodology Department working now?
Yes, there are separate divisions for character and classical dance. We are slightly changing the programs and some movements, but the foundation remains.
Character dance as a class is mostly absent in the West. Can you comment on that?
I saw a character dance classes at the Paris Opera School, but there is no understanding there – no character, nothing. We were Elizabeth Platel‘s guests, and she invited us to a character dance class. The students danced what they thought was a Russian dance especially for us. But in fact it was a Ukrainian Gopak dance. They don‘t even distinguish them. There is no such culture in the world. The boys kept their hands on their chests, not knowing that this was a typical gesture of girls holding beads.
The next day I went to the theater, there was a ballet called “The Stream“ (at the Paris Opera), and the program said “Lezghinka, a national dance from the Caucasus,“ but they danced the mazurka! So there was a complete lack of understanding of the character and culture of a character dance. Character dance is, of course, only found in Russia.
What is included in character dance lessons at the Academy now? How do you teach it?
In elementary school, we establish the arms and body, and you need to learn how to master a different character. For example, the arms in the Russian dance will be different from the arms in the Hungarian dance. There is a big difference between Spanish hands. In the Mazurka, for example, there are such movements as balance and pas de basque, which are found in all dances. But in each dance they are done differently, with a different torso and hand positions. Only our children in St. Petersburg have this knowledge. At the Bolshoi Theatre, people tend to dance more, but we still have the traditions of the Imperial Theater here. By their high school years, the children are studying fragments from ballets, which prepares them: when they join any theater, they already have some repertoire and base.
What is the source for the character dances in Act 2 of “Swan Lake“?
It was believed that Marius Petipa staged a Spanish dance because he lived in Spain. But not really. The Spanish dance was staged by Alexander Gorsky. He came from another version of “Swan Lake”. Apparently, this dance was better choreographed than Petipa‘s. I guess they changed it because the latter was brighter. This version of the ballet is currently being performed at Mikhailovsky in Mikhail Messerer’s version.
The next dance, the Neapolitan, was staged by Konstantin Sergeev, the Hungarian by Lev Ivanov. And Petipa directed the Mazurka. Lev Ivanov often staged Hungarian dances. And almost all the premieres were danced by the Hungarian dancer Alfred Bekefi. Since he was Hungarian himself, he knew some movements and contributed to Petipa‘s choreography. Relatively speaking, the same story as when Anisimova staged the saber dance, she could not stage the men‘s part, it was staged by the first performer Belsky. Historically, the first performer always contributed something of his own to the choreography. Probably, the Hungarian dance was staged by Bekefi, and Felix Kshesinsky, a Polish character dancer who knew the Mazurka like no other, took part in the Mazurka. He was Matilde Kshesinskaya’s father. He even staged a ballet based on Polish dances. It‘s hard to imagine now, but then Poland was part of Russia, and the Warsaw Opera and Ballet Theater was under the direction of the overall Directorate of Imperial Theaters. It was the Russian Empire. Therefore, Petipa put everything together, but it cannot be said that he put everything together himself.
Do students study music at the Academy now?
Yes, 4 years of piano, and then they don’t have time for it after that.
Why are character dances called character dances? Did these choreographers create dances based on real folk dances?
I think, in my opinion, it is correct to call it a character dance, because in other cities, for example, in Moscow, it is called a folk stage dance, because we have a dance that is done “in character”. What Spanish movements are there in the Spanish dance in “Swan Lake“? None! It‘s all pas de basque, glissade, pas de bourrée, balancé. This is all based on being “in character“ like the Spanish people. This is a theatrical, stage dance, and it has nothing to do with folk dance in its purest form. Of course, there are, for example, some elements in the mazurka — clicks, heels, “keys“, or “cabbage rolls“ as we call them — but they are so adapted to the stage that they cannot be called folk dance in any way.
In Soviet times we had 15 republics – Moldova, Ukraine, Georgia, etc. – and each had its own national ballet. Not a dance, but a ballet production based on its own national theme. And they had to include national dances in this ballet theme. Therefore, national dances developed for the stage, folk stage dances, came on stage in ballets. Therefore, when Yakobson‘s “Shuralé” entered the repertoire, Tatar dance appeared in our program at the Academy, because “Shuralé” has elements of Tatar dance. It cannot be said that they’re authentic, they are stylized as a folk dance. Therefore, to this question, we can say that these dances are not present in the classical heritage, everything is very stylized, as in “Raymonda” or “Don Quixote“.
Why is it important to preserve these dances? Unfortunately, there are almost no new productions using it, because the choreographers do not know this genre. It doesn’t seem to be fashionable, but on the other hand, who among the choreographers can?
Maybe only Maxim Sevagin, now head of the Stanislavsky?
Yes, he set some works that were not that bad.
When is it decided whether a student will be engaged in the character track in their career, rather than in a classical one?
It is based on their figure, lines, traits, feet, on having a long neck and small head. There must be a certain technique. Character dance has always required less strict physical traits, but now even that is becoming less relevant than before, because now you need to be well prepared physically, because technology has advanced. If we look at the recording of the Indian dance (from Bayadère) 50 years ago and now, we can see that now the legs are rising higher, bending more. But for a character dance, first of all, temperament and good looks are needed – they must be bright on stage.
How do historical dances differ from character dancing?
Historical dances are also found in ballets of the classical heritage, for example, the dance with pillows in “Romeo and Juliet” is a historical dance, and we study it in the historical dance lesson at the Academy. For example, the hunting scene in “Sleeping Beauty“ – there is a minuet, a gallop, these are such historical and everyday dances that are danced to reflect the historical era of the production.
And are they considered to be identical to what they were? No, of course it‘s a fantasy. But they are called that because it is “as if“… Let‘s say a Romanesque dance is being danced in “Raymonda”, and the historical dance itself does not correspond to the era in which the action of Raymonda takes place. But it was easy in style and to display a romantic mood. They don‘t always match, but the performance should not be based solely on classical dances, there should be dramatic breaks to switch the audience. Let’s take, for example, “La Bayadère“: first we see the little bayadères, then the Manu dance which is a demi soloist role, and then the Indian dance, and then the grand pas. If everything is simply done on pointe shoes, then it’s boring. Therefore, historical and character dances convey the era and atmosphere.
Is there a real minuet and gallop in the “Sleeping Beauty”?
In Vikharev‘s version, yes. In Sergeyev‘s version of the minuet, it was cut out. The cut is the passage that Sergeyev deleted. But when Vikharev was setting it, he reopened the section that was cut, there was a minuet there, and he restored it.
For example, the music for the male variation in “Sleeping Beauty”, is generally music from the passe–pied dance. The historical passe–pied dance used to be danced to this music. Konstantin Mikhailovich Sergeev decided, “We‘ll take this music and give it to the Prince.“ Lopukhov added the Lilac Fairy dance in the first act, in the Prologue, which wasn’t there before. Marie Petipa [daughter of Marius] appeared in this role in a suit with heels, because she did not know how to dance. She was the first Lilac Fairy. Therefore, these dances were gradually added.
What do you teach at the Conservatory now?
The composition of historical dance. Future choreographers study there. That’s why the subject is called “composition“. They study the preserved dances, and based on them they further stylize. We‘ve already studied the minuet, and now they have to compose their own minuet. In order to stage their minuet, they need to know what movements it can comprise.
What’s the best part of your job?
Working with young people, with the children who graduate every year, and having new ones attend. Each year you don‘t know what will happen, because it depends not only on the teacher, but also on the children. This is the result of teamwork, a new adventure.
When a student graduates, is he or she defined as character or classical dancer?
Not now. When I graduated, yes. Previously, a character dancer would dance a character dance and leave the stage or theatre, they would not also stand in the line of swans in another act. There are a lot of tours now, the theatre has two stages, and you need to dance everything. So when I was 19, I became the Queen in “Swan Lake”, because I stood in the line of swans, and what should I do in Act 1? Although the Queen is a role for older dancers. Most likely, this is due to touring and combining the emploi. Previously, famous character soloists never stood on pointe shoes to classical music. Now we are producing versatile dancers.
Do you believe in fate, in destiny?
There’s probably something like that, but a lot of things a person has to do on their own. Going with the flow, hoping that fate will do something for you, it probably doesn‘t happen that way. There’s a combination of circumstances: meeting a teacher with whom you find a common language at the right time, being offered a job at the right time, or getting to know someone. But if a person doesn‘t do anything, then most likely nothing will happen.
What is happiness for you?
I remember someone said. “Happiness is when you enjoy going to work and enjoy coming home.“ As my son says, “Mom, you‘re lucky that your hobby matches your job.“ And again, “Happiness is within yourself.“ It all depends on how you feel about the situation.
Do you miss the stage?
No, because I can‘t say that everything in the theater was easy and wonderful. A person misses it if he or she was happy on stage. It was always a struggle for me. I was afraid to go on stage, I thought it might not work out, it was still stressful for me. Now I keep dancing in the studio without going on stage, and maybe it makes up for it somehow. Maybe I‘m even happier than before.
Do you have any dreams for the future?
I have everything I‘ve ever dreamed of.
What advice do you have for prospective students? You need to get a comprehensive education – to read, watch and listen to music, to understand everything. I often tell some stories to help students understand the character. For example, we study Spanish dance, and why do they dance like that? Because it is believed that the Spanish dance [in “Swan Lake“] is like the “suite” of Odile and Rothbart, as friends. When the main characters leave the stage, the Spaniards immediately start dancing. You need to know these things to understand what you‘re doing on stage. You need to know the drama and the characters. If you dance Spartacus, you have to understand how it differs from Scheherazade. Ballet is not only technique, it’s a role. You can‘t fool the audience.
Is there a future in ballet? Of course, everyone goes to the theater, tickets are sold out, there are no seats left.
All photos from Anastasia’s personal archive. Image of her in “Don Quixote” by Mikhail Logvinov.